Bhutto has been killed in Pakistan. What is next? Pakistan has a festering problem. It is called fundamentalist Islam --true Islam. True Islam is about politics and conquest. Saudi Arabia has this problem too. Iran has this problem. Indonesia has this problem. Egypt has this problem. Syria has this problem. Israel has this problem. Sudan and Nigeria have this problem. Uganda has this problem. Afghanistan has this problem. Turkey has this problem. Even parts of Europe are beginning to have this problem.
The time is over for saying, "this isn't true Islam, but a radical minority." The disease is too wide-spread for that. It is true Islam. Muhammed was a war-chief. His First Followers were too.
The World is being made increasingly interdependent. Money and communication (the same thing?) are making all nations more intimate with one another. And as the world gets smaller, the problem of Islam gets bigger.
The blood has begun to flow. It won't stop. The time for judgment of the world against Islam (or Islam against the world) has come.
(By the way, as far as I know, only America, in the last 6 years, have constructively and decisively dealt with the issue in at least two nations.)
13 comments:
Amen! I am so tired of head-in-the-sand political correctness and the smug liberals who pityingly (is that a word?) shake their heads at those of us who know the truth--Islam is a bloody religion of murder. Islam says, 'convert or be killed.' Not to admit that is ridiculous and supremely dangerous and foolish. Hrumph.
Hrumph! is right.
Our modern world has trouble with discernment.
we must be able to discern Islam from Muslims. It can be agreed that there are millions of "Muslims" who are not very fundamental regarding their religion --probably not very devout at all. Would they be insulted if we say Islam is bloody? Sure they will. As will uncommitted Christians get offended is someone insulted their denomination, even if they never darken the doors of a church unless someone gets married or dies.
too bad. Islam has a history. It began in the 7th century with a bang, with swords, with bloodshed.
Perhaps that's part of the problem, history. Western History doesn't want to make anyone bad guys except for white European males. How many moderns know that Europe itself nearly fell completely to the Muslims in the so-called "dark" ages? How many know that by God's providence, in the same year that Columbus discovered the New World, the Muslims were finally pushed out of Spain, bringing the dawn of a new day to the world, one where the darkness of Islam did not cover all.
Islam is bad for children. Islam is bad for women. Islam is bad for all fair-minded and just men. Islam is bad for nations. Islam is political. The separation of church and state is against basic Islamic doctrine. This is historical fact.
When historical fact becomes too hot for the politically correct, those with evil intent will take the unsuspecting like wolves take sheep.
Congratulations Mindy, you found a way to tie liberals to the assassination of Bnutto.
You can go to sleep tonight without having to do any self analysis regarding the political and social figures you support now.
Rush would be proud.
Wow. I'm a first time visitor to this blog. I can't even get over how narrow minded and small are the thoughts being posted on this blog. There are many devout Muslims that believe in their FAITH, not the political ambitions of radical Muslim sects. Ignorance is a bigger problem in our society than any religion, any political belief - anything. Your narrow mindedness is just as frightening as those who head up Al Qaeda or any other extreme organization. Ignorance breeds hate, contempt, fear and misunderstanding, no matter what religion, or what country you live in. Sweeping generalizations made regarding people you don't know is the definition of ignorance, and it is this ignorance that makes other religions, and other nations, hold some Americans in contempt. No one made you superior to anyone else, nor do you have the right to lay judgment on another group of people that you don't know. Shame on you. Instead of hating, judging and being bigoted, you should reach out, and learn to respect and work with your neighbor. Without doing that, this world will never live in peace.
And as far as Islam being a religion of blood and violence... I'm pretty sure I remember something about some crusades back in my history classes. Christianity has never had clean hands either. But hopefully, others in the world notice Christians by the good works we do, and not the blood on the hands of out ancestors. It is a shame there are some people who are so insecure and threatened by difference that they are unable to extend the same level of compassion and understanding to those that are different to them. I pray for you, and that you find the ability to be a better person through humility, compassion and understanding, instead of judgment and hatred.
Heather,
thanks for chiming in.
just two responses, though I don't think you're listening because your words don't match what I posted or said.
1. "Ignorance" is what you are accusing me of. Check your history. You might find the Crusades but that is an anomoly. it is not the norm nor fundamental to the Christian faith. It seems you are ignorant, as is our entire generation, as to the origins and teachings of Islam. Muhammed was a war-lord. furthermore, the wars of the crusades (which the Muslims also participated in, but for some reason western white people don't seem to notice their part)were nothing compared to the Muslim slaughter of Christians in Ethiopa and all of Northern Africa in 7th, 8th, 9th Centuries and following. Islam has always been a warriors religion. Just look up the history before you answer this.
2."Sweeping generalizations about people" is what you accuse me of. I didn't do that. please read my words again. In fact, what I said is that our generation has a hard time discerning between Islam (which is not people but a set of beliefs) and Muslims (which are people). Then I pointed out that there are millions of Muslims who are not violent, though they may take offense to what I have to say about Islam.
Now, you attacked me mercilessly. You called me narrow minded, acting out of fear, accused me of hating people and so on. I will not speak so rudely to you. it is clear you have no love for me. but I have love for you, as I do for everyone I meet.
including Muslims. Please, Heather, I am saying Muslims. I do not love Islam. I love Muslims. I think Islam is a false religion that vicitimizes people (I'm guessing that you are now thinking like the popular culture tells you and thinking, "How dare he say he doesn't like someone else's religion?" All I can say is, "Why is that taboo?" I'd also add that had I said the same about fundamentalist Christianity, you probably wouldn't have had a problem with it --break out of the box and think things anew).
Christians are giving their lives for Muslims all around this world. Many of them I know. Many of them I work with. how? They are living among them and bringing the the gospel of Jesus Christ. for this, they are often arrested and killed. I love Muslims and want them to live. I want them to be at peace. I want them to be happy. I don't want them killed. I don't want them to die. I don't want them to lose their countries. I am for the MUslims. I am against Islam. I'm not sure I can be more clear than that.
And now, HEather, how about you answer me this: Do you have it in you to criticize that Islam does to women? Forced female circumcision? Denial of education? Property of husbands? Killed for disgracing the family by being raped? Forced to dress in oppressive uniforms? Are you offended by this?
Yet, you rail at me. Hmmm. Who is really narrow minded?
I'm not the bad guy. Neither me nor my belief system says to take up the sword and kill all who disagree with me. But Islam does. Does this bother you?
Mike
As an attorney who works with domestic violence survivors, I frequently see women from the Islamic religion seeking protective orders, and trying to escape the abuse that they have suffered. I think it is horrible. I think it is a perversion of the Islamic faith, and not in keeping with the tenants of peace and tolerance that are also preached in the Qur'an. every religion, and every religious text, has inconsistent and conflicting passages in their writings. It is not the religion that is bad for anyone. It is the interpretation by an insecure, controlling or dominant human that corrupts the word of any god, and causes people to fight. There are those who practice the faith of Islam in a peaceful way, and they deserve to be respected as much as "Muslims" do. To do otherwise is to say, gee, I sure don't like Catholics, but I really respect the Pope. How can anyone feel respected when their religion is attacked?
And, as far as ignorance. You said that Islam is a religion of bloodshed. That is is bad for children, and women. There are many out there who benefit from the teachings of Islam, and feel confident in their faith in Islam. To say that it is "bad" is not correct. And to say that a Muslim is not devout or fundamental because they are non-violent is also not correct. There are plenty of non-violent, devout Muslims who are peaceful and thankful for their faith, and do not believe in violence. I had dinner with many of them when I was in Morocco a few months ago. I was welcomed into their home, toured the mosque in Casablanca, and saw that ignorance is what fuels your opinions, and that the religion of Islam does not deserve the attacks that you, and others, have leveled against it.
Heather,
Thank you for changing the tone of your comments. It will be easier to talk now.
Your parallel regarding Catholics and the Pope doesn't work, for in it you are comparing not liking one group of people (Catholics) but liking another person (the pope). To make it analagous to what I am arguing it would go like this, you could say, "I do not like Catholicism but I like Catholics and the pope." do you see the difference? In yours, people are the targets. In mine, a belief system is. (for the record, I have no bone to pick with Catholicism at this time!)
To be clear, Muslims are people, Islam is their belief system. Look at it this way. It is obvious that you don't like my belief system as you understand it. But if you came to my home, you would find yourself well-received, loved, liked, respected and fed. Why? Because we believe strongly in hospitality as do most Muslims. You might find you like me and my family and even, eventually, love us. But you might still say, "But I don't like their beliefs regarding religion."
That is what I am saying. I love Muslims. i know Muslims. I have received hospitality from Muslims. I realize that the vast majority of Muslims are not violent and never will be. I realize that they are kind and hospitable people. What I am saying --and I know that the post-modern mind finds this offensive-- is that Islam, the belief system, in it's original state (not how it is practiced by the majority of nominal Muslims) is political, violent, and tends towards conquest. I'll go further and say that when governments are run by the Islamic religion (Afghanistan, Iran, etc) and when governments allow or condone sharia law even if they don't enforce it always themselves (Egypt, Saudi-Arabia, etc), that the people are oppressed --the Muslim people are oppressed.
Heather, if we are to talk about this, we have to stop reacting to buzz words and knee-jerk arguments and speak honestly about the complexities we are dealing with.
Peace.
Oh, and Heather, one more thing.
Thank you for your work in protecting oppressed and abused women and children. We need people like you. Your work is close to the heart of God.
Mike
I believe that your comments have evolved into a different opinion. I take no issue with your last post. Fundamentalism, in any religion, is sometimes frightening, because it is fueled by people who are so short sighted that they cannot see beyond their own beliefs, and their own interpretations of a religious text. I do not believe that any religion should be evaluated by looking at it's fundamental sects, and I believe that there is a difference between taking issue with "fundamentalist" or "radical" islam, and islam as a whole. Your other posts seemed to be upset, rightly so, with the violent nature of radical islam, but generalizing it by referring to it as islam in general. I do believe this is a misstatement.
on another note, i do not doubt that your family would be very welcoming. but, if i showed up wearing a head wrap and prayed five times a day towards mecca, would you be hesitant of me until I proved I was not a "radical muslim"? I agree with you taking issue with certain teachings of Islam, and some of those who choose to practice them. What I do not agree with is skepticism of all Muslims, and distaste for the entire religion because of a few. Islam is not a violent religion. I believe that opinion is ignorant. I do not say it with disrespect, but it is what I believe. There are, however, violent persons who practice the religion of Islam, and use their religion to justify their violence. I have truly come to believe that violence is a decision a person makes in life, and religion, politics, mental instability -- whatever -- are all just excuses to justify it. I have seen just as many christian men beat their families as muslim or other religions. Violence is a choice. Religion, or any other believe system, is merely the means of justification.
I understand frustration with violent or radical muslims, but to attack a belief system is not, to me, the correct manner of dealing with it. When my clients are suffering from the pain in their life, I try to turn them towards their religion, whatever it may be, not away from it. Finding solace in their faith is a help to them. It does not inspire violence in them. It inspires the peace they need to move on with their lives, and heal, for themselves and their children.
Heather,
you bring up some great points. I think there is more agreement among us than you think, but still some areas where we don't agree (and that's okay).
If you showed up with a headscarf and prayed five times to Mecca, believe it or not, I would be MORE welcoming to you. I would love it. There is no one I would rather have the chance to love and show hospitality to. Why? My own, Christian motivations. I would want you to know the love of Christ. I would not be afraid of you (unless you had a bomb belt on you or something :) ).
Second, perhaps I have not played my hand in what I know because of the admittedly visceral reaction to the slaying of a political leader. But I KNOW that the Islamic religion has itself evolved in many ways and that there are many branches that would not condone violence. I know that most Muslims, either because their practice of ISlam has changed from beginning or because they are nominal in their faith, would never want a violent Jihad. Perhaps it would have helped if I had said that at the outset. (but one can't say everything, every post, you know?).
Next, I don't agree that returning to "fudamentals" of a faith is always negative. INdeed, the Crusades, as mentioned before, were a departure form the fundamentals of the Christian faith. Jesus never raised an army and never condoned killing in His name. therefore, a true fundamentalist Christian wouldn't kill in His name. Also, a true "fundamental" Christian would not look down on prostitutes and drunkards, etc. HE would love all people and share the love of God and feel comfortable with all people. (by the way, this is the sort of christian I strive to be, and I know many people like this). Perhaps the problem is the characature in popular culture of what "fundamentalist Christians are like" (people who hate everyone and condemn everyone, etc) --aided by wacko's like Fred PHelps, et al-- has made the term fundamentalist poison. I would hate to be called a fundamentalist. I never use the term of myself. But in truth, I believe that the fundamentals of the Christian faith are good indeed and create good citizens, good neighbors, good friends, etc.
And this brings be back to my original point: Islam, in it's beginning was a religion of conquest and politics. THis is easy to verify by a survey of history, beginning with Muhammed himself. My further point was that historical events stopped the political march of Islam across the globe in the 15th Century. Now, I believe, because of circumstances in the world, true (fundamental) Islam is clashing with the world again. Something has got to give. Either ISlam (and by this I mean in it's original form, not a more peaceful modern form that some may hold) will have to be stopped, or they will stop the world. that is what I meant by "judgement has come." perhaps a better way of putting it is, "The clash is now upon us. someone will have to win this fight, whether we want the fight or not" --this is not a religious comment but a geo-political observation, and indeed a reality we will be living with in the decades to come.
Thanks for your input. It helps me to be more precise in my language, and perhaps less misunderstood, and hopefully, less offensive.
God bless you and yours in the New Year.
mike
Heather,
So called "Christians" who beat their families aren't following Jesus the same as the "Christians" who blow up abortion clinics or protest at U.S. soldier's funeral. Where in the Bible does it say to do these things? Obviously, the question is rhetorical.
Muslims who codone violence and killing those who don't convert to Islam are following the teaching of their religion. Does it matter that some practicing Muslim's don't adhere to this? It is still wrong and does go on. It is quite obviously a growing threat on a global scale. That, I think, is at the root of Mike's posting.
You are obviously an educated, informed individual; how are you missing this?
In the New Testament, Jesus did preach peace, and he did not order people to be killed, and he did not organize a fighting army. But what has always disturbed me is that the tone of the New Testament and Jesus's actions are very different from the tone of the Old Testament and God's actions.
While trying to read through the entire Bible from the beginning, in Exodus, where God freed the Jewish people from slavery and had them led to the promised land, I was shocked to learn that the promised land was actually inhabited. Were they told to share the land? No, they weren't. They were commanded to kill every man, woman, and child and take it for themselves, and God would make sure they win.
I had a hard time grasping that because it goes so against what Jesus does teach. When I asked about this, I was told that at the time, God's religion was new and this was a necessary step that had to happen in order to ensure the religion would survive.
But it doesn't seem all that different to me then the command to kill those who won't convert to Islam. Why was it all right when God needed an entire country to be massacred for the sake of his people, but not ok when the same is instructed in Islam?
Believe me, I am not for radical violence in any religion and I am not Muslim. But when I read back and forth on this subject, immediately what comes to my mind is that God ordered the slaughter of mass amounts of people to ensure the survival of his religion.
And it doesn't end there- no disrespect meant toward God because I do believe in Him, and He knows what I think so I can't pretend I don't have these questions or think about these issues.
In Deuteronomy, why were those who made mistakes with the rigid rituals and rules ordered to be taken to the front gates and be stoned to death? Is this really what God would want? Wasn't it just as simple to say that for punishment they would have to go a day without food? Why death? And is it that different from Muslims beheading Muslims that renounce or disobey the religion?
I know that this is the present time and these things aren't practiced in our society anymore, but if the Jews were to practice their faith to the "T", they would have to be killing each other right now, according to the religion. I guess they don't because it's against the law to kill someone else- but oddly it's against *government* law, not God's law, from the Old Testament.
And likewise, if Christians were practicing *their* faith to the "T", we would not be in Iraq right now; the entire matter would have been handled more peacefully, which I believe it could have been because I am a Christian.
I know Jesus came and changed everything, but from what did he change it? I just don't like it when there are double standards.
Double standard?
Look deeper, my friend.
First, the idea that if Christians acted like Jesus we wouldn't be in Iraq needs to be dispensed with. Christians didn't invade Iraq. The United States government did. Last I checked, the government is not a Christian institution. Plus, what would Jesus advise in this situation?
Now to the real issue. God has a right to kill anyone He wants. He is not unjust. If God told Muslims to kill people then they should. But God didn't and isn't.
Jesus has been killing people to this present day, in that no one dies unless it is ordained by God. Everyone dies. Who is responsible?
Jesus will return at the end of the age, and then, what will He do? According to the New Testament, He will raise those who did not follow Him and throw them into an eternal hell. That seems even more harsh than God in the Old Testament, doesn't it?
Your question requires a longer answer than is reasonable in this forum. But know that things aren't as simple as you make them.
What did Jesus change? Instead of God pouring out His wrath on mankind --and mankind does deserve His wrath-- He poured out on His Son, Jesus, on our behalf. That's what you must see. You deserve to be killed for your sins. So do I. If God killed us for our sins, He would be justified as He was in the Old Testament, as He will be at the end of the age, etc. But, in His Mercy, He saves us through His Son. And now, the message we bring is that the God who showed His righteous wrath in the Old Testament hasn't changed. He still hates sin and punishes sinners. But you can escape that through placing your faith in Jesus, because God cares and wants to save you.
The difference between Christianity and the Muslim faith is that the Muslim faith is false. Jesus is the Way. Muhammed is not. They can't both be true because they contradict each other. Either one must believe in Christianity, in Islam, or in neither. But to say that both are true is just silly.
I submit that the Muslim faith is false. The Christian faith is true. Jesus can tell people to kill other people today if He wants and it would be just. BUT HE DOESN'T. He said that during this time, we are to declare His salvation and leave vengeance up to Him. He will judge. He is the same God who rained fire on Sodom and Gamorrah
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