The Penguins might be leaving Pittsburgh. And this, at a time when their fans are attending the games in large numbers and the team has the most exciting players in the game.
Why? Because politicians can't work a deal to replace the oldest arena in the NHL. To read a bit more on the saga, click here or here.
Bottom line, this is a matter of "want-to." The politicians don't want it bad enough. And so, the people of Pittsburgh and vicinity will lose one of the few professional sports teams in this half of the state.
I don't blame the owners on this one. Lemiux has tried hard for almost a decade to keep this team in this town. He rescued the Penguins from a certain move in 1999 when he put together a group to buy them from bankruptcy. The value of this team to this region should speak for itself. I guess it doesn't.
Our governor got involved. His final word? "They're tough negotiators." So are you, Mr Governor. You seem to get your way when you want to raise our taxes (sales tax going up, employer payroll taxes to pay for health care welfare, a million other little taxes) and when you want the casino big-bosses to get their slot palaces. I guess Mario Lemuix, who wants to keep the team in Pittsburgh, is just too tough for you. Yeah, right. And I'm the NHL's leading scorer.
Come on, guys. Let's get this deal done.
20 comments:
I don't like Ed at all. I can't think of a single positive thing he's done for the state. On the other hand, why don't these athletes build their own places to play? Not like they're underpaid. I always wondered what would happen if there was a cap of $30k for players. It's a past time game, and they're making millions. I've got mad tic tac toe skills, get me an agent :)
Andy, I know it seems that teams should just do all their own business. However, when building a multi-million dollar arena in a city, there is a great deal of read tape, government, and money involved.
As for the player's pay, they are earning it. It might not seem fair, but TV pays a lot of money to the Penguins because lots of people watch and they make lots from advertisers. That money should go to the team, and that team money should go to the players, not just the owners. Every licensed Crosby shirt is making money for a lot of people down the line. Shouldn't Crosby be paid?
As for the state helping to make this happen, it is good for the state to do so. Why? it brings money, revenue, and notoriety to the state. There are hundreds of thousands of dollars that stream into cities because of their sports teams. hotels fill up, stadium jobs, concession jobs, the industries that support the stadium (food suppliers, maintenance, services, etc), an on and on it goes. A great deal of money flows into Pittsburgh, the city, from all over western PA and even other states because of her sports teams. It is to the advantage of the state to have professional sports teams.
As for the Pens, they had one of these new slot casinos willing to pay for the arena, no cost to the state. Why didn't that deal go through? Some other casino who offered the right amount of money (dare we guess, perhaps the right amount of money to the right person?) pushed that casino out of the way. There was the state's chance. it would have cost them nothing.
Fact: The Penguins are a popular team, with good young players, and ownership that is not only trying to win, but trying to keep the team in Pittsburgh. I may not be much of a politician, but I guarantee, if I was mayor or Governor, I'd get it done or I'd die.
I would not sit back and say, "Hey, they drive a hard bargain." in the words of Jim Rome, "Rediculous!"
one other thing, this isn't personal about Ed Rendell. As a leader, I don't think he is good for the state. What is hard to do is to keep that from getting personal. I don't hate him. He's the governor. I am not rooting for him to fail. I don't want to say, "Don't blame me, I voted for the other guy." Instead, I'd like to say, "Well, I'm surprised. I didn't think he'd do a good job and he did."
He's a tax-hiker, that is for sure. He probably won't undo that. but there are other areas of the state to govern. on the report card, there are many classes. he gets graded for each one. This isn't personal. It's about performance. Just like any other job.
God Loves The Devil's. Go Devil's!!
Sorry I just always wanted to say that and it seemed appropriate!!
To say I am not a fan of the choices our governor has made is an understatement. Specifically, he proposes cuts or negotiates contracts that limit both my husband's and my incomes. He negotiated a contract with a union to take a 2 year wage freeze. He took a wage freeze... His wage freeze didn't last long and got a retro raise after one year. He also wants gambling but is not smart enough to see that there is already a need for funds for gambling addictions treatment and he needs to designate more funds to this area.
But about the Pens. I believe that Mario waited longer than any professional businessman should have waited to secure a new arena. As far as attendance being up, I believe it is in part because of the teams success, with the new blood they have on the team. They are on fire! I haven't been this excited for the Pens since the 90's... Mark Recchi was my favorite then and still is now. I also believe attendance is up because many people are pretty sure this may be the last year to see them in the Burgh. We plan on going before seasons end....
Yes, popularity and talent go together. with the exception of the Penn State Nittany Lions and the Chicago Cubs, it is hard to sell out for losing seasons. Winners sell tickets.
If I were Rendell, I'd move heaven and earth to keep Crosby in the state. He might turn out to be the best player ever. Jordan brings to mind Chicago. Bird, Boston. Namath, New York. Montana, San Francisco. Crosby? Kansas city?
Of course, Rendell is a Flyers fan, so maybe his motives . . . naw.
I remember the last time the Devils won the cup. The sign on the church lawn in Union, NJ?
"It's official. Only God can beat the Devils."
WOW!
I need a way of writing my comments into your paragraphs to cover all that I would like to say on this one. Maybe in Red.
1. I love hockey. We are a family of ice. All three of my kids spent a lot of time on ice growing up, just as I did. I love to watch the Pens. Right now, they are on top of their game and one of the most exciting teams in the Nation.
2. For them, it is a business, not a sport. Billions go thru those turn gates. The arena may be the oldest in the league (which is otherwise know as "rich in history") (Not my point)
3. Lemieux was a "GREAT" player but also largely responsible ((actually the owner that agreed to pay him what they dii)) for getting them - INTO - bankruptcy. He accepted the team as partial payment. To rich of a contract for a small town like Pittsburgh. - But I sure did enjoy watching him play here.
3. I don't like Ed R either and agree he loves to raise taxes and is so slick at making people think he is helping them in the process that it is pathetic.
4. I better stop here or No One will read this - but what I really want to say is that the arena should be (my thought) mostly private money (since they, the owners of the team, make the profit) but definitly supported by some government money. After all - we are the government, that is the people in Allentown's money too and they could not possibly benefit from us building the new arena.
5. As for the casino trying to build a new arena - I think it was terrible that we even considered letting that company get the right to build a casino by thru offering a new arena. (I don't like casinos but their license should be based on how well they are prepared to deal with the problems of the casino - not who's pocket gets bigger coming in the door.
Finally, I guess I went on long enough that no one will read this thing - sorry about that. Let them build the new arena by using the money in the game already. Like you said TV, license rights, ... - I would rather use the taxes for some other things (like a pay raise for the Senator and Judges or bonus pay to others. (how do I keep missing those opportunities?
Big Fred, thanks for some insight from a home-grown Penguin hockey man.
One question: if, and this is not reality --ust a hypothetical-- if the Penguins could build their arena in Armstrong county, and you were a government leader in this county, woulld you think that would be good for the county? If so, would you be willing to do what you could to get them here? Perhaps some tax incentives? perhaps other financial inducements?
I think we would do that, if we could. A sports team is not like any other business in that it brings glory to a geographical area. With that glory comes increased business for that area. Foxboro Mass, Green Bay Wisconsin --what would these cities be if not for the football teams that play there? Their property values are greater, and their business opportunities increased. They become destination cities instead of just places you pass through.
If I could get a professional (and popular) hockey team in my town, that does more than just benefit the hockey team. It does great things for my city. (The exception would be Detroit, of course, because they burn down their city every time the Pistons win anything --good thing the lions are so bad or it might be a constant riot.)
The value of a team to a geographical area goes far beyond benefiting the ones who actually go to the games. That value to an area is going to translate into a number. Kansas City understands this and is willing to put up the money to get an exciting team that will give a shot of health and life to their city.
It would be better, though, if Penguins kept the same first name: Pittsburgh. Good for the Penguins, good for Pittsburgh, good for Pennsylvania.
I agree that I wold like to see them stay. I would really would like to see the in Pittsburgh for a long time.
My issue is in their arrogance to keep pushing for more money from every one except the people that stand to benefit directly. I also agree that public money should be part of that solution. I just think it should be less than Mario believes it should be.
The boost to the economy in the city is very evident. The think I say to that is that they are playing in a reasonablely acceptable facility. It could be "nicer", "newer", and "much more expensive" but they just started to fill the seats in this place for the first time in a consistent way in 12 years. Sidney is the best - BuT let's play hockey and let that bring the new arena in due time.
Bring those Devils on and Let's play hockey on the pond in Worthington!
How about the new muscle on the team?
Talent is there to make it all the way, just lack the seasoning. (And maybe a little old style defense too) (I hope they surprise me on that.
Fred, you are a purist! LEt's meet at the pond and get it on!!
Reminds me of boxers who want to fight at the press conference, in the parking lot and anywhere else! Got to love it.
I agree with Big Fred, I didn't like the idea of casino money - if you are going to let a casino pay for the arena, then you might as well see if Hugh Heffner would like to buy the Pens.
I didn't like the idea of casinos in Pennsylvania, period. I do question, though, how serious the government of PA is about the negotiations if they allowed a "free to the state" arena to slip away. That's all.
Oh yeah, and one more thing - I don't think today's NHL is what Arthur Stanley had in mind when he was forming the first ever hockey association in North America. He even used his own private rink for his team. They didn't play for money back then, they played simply because they loved the game.
Well, this sounds familiar. We almost lost our (3 time Stanley Cup Champions)Devils a few years back, so I feel your pain.
When Quebec lost the Nordiques, we knew no one was immune to the greed of these organizations. It's a real shame for the fans, but a telling sign of our (greedy) times.
It's very funny that Kansas City would make the offer. The New Jersey Devils started there as the Kansas City Scouts, left to become the Colorado Avalanche, then in 1982, came to Jersey. Colorado and KC couldn't handle a team then, but Quebec came to Colorado, and now KC seeks the Pens.
Very sad. I hope they re-consider and stay where they belong.
Breezy, you and Big Fred are the purists here. I have bad news for you, though. The money is in the game and here to stay.
A new arena means a lot more revenue. A new arena will be the Penguins' home. the question is which city.
I was reading about this in the paper today. Politics and business all mixed up. My, my, my.
You know, Rendell can raise the gas tax, raise the sales tax, raise a bunch of hidden taxes (like the one he is trying to push through on your used car trade ins -- my brother sells cars and lets me know these things), etc, but no one bats an eye. Fail to make a deal on our sports? Well, now he has our attention. Does something seem wrong with that to you?
Anyway, we're all hoping for the same result. Penguins need to stay in Pittsburgh.
I agree mike, lets keep them if we can because I love the game and they are up and coming. I vote for them by buying their tickets.
If they go, they will be missed. Hockey will take several steps back by loosing this "championship" team.
There will be a replacement - minor leagues, yah probably but it can be good hockey. AND
Tickets - they will be cheaper. Johnstown Chiefs tickets average $12 per seat.
NEXT RANT
Ed R. - The sad part of that is we have been conditioned to realize that they will do what they want in HBG anyway. We only can vote different next time. (Which real worked well last year!)
I know that is not the way it should be but having a fairly close seat to some of these things, They WILL DO what they want in Hbg and just present it differently based on what you want.
That is why this reform thru a constitutional convention might work out here. The Law Makers are nervous about that idea and want to limit it in order so that not to mess with to many of their ways of doing things.
I don't really like tea but, we are one of the highist taxed states in the nation, (maybe even the highest??) largest group of law makers, judges that make tons of money and still don't do their job, .... I'm sorry - anyway, Boston had a party a few hundred years ago on something like this and they gave everyone Tea.
(Not how we should handle this though) (Steel instead of tea? - just kidding)
Fast Eddie R and friends is very slick.
I'll shut my purist mouth now!
All one more thing - There is no such thing as free. That casino owner's was looking to put 20,000 people everytime the Pens where in town thru his casino. Not hard when you build the area and casino side by side and carry a lot of influence now with the local government. (He is better than Rendell) Isle of Capri would have become a King overnight. Now, I shut up. sorry
Hockey is a dying sport. It's hanging on here in Philadelphia and it sounds like there is still some interest in Pittsburgh.
It may not warrant the state or city's investment in a long term sense.
When Ed was the mayor of Philadelphia, he helped negotiate the deal that got new stadiums in Pitt and Phila for football and baseball.
The Sixes and Flyers built their own building with some tax incentives, that was about it. (as I recall. I may have some details wrong, but that is how I recall it going down.)
By the way, some of your criticisms of Ed Rendell are pretty funny.
Do the Penguins really generate enough tax revenue to justify the expense? What is their attendance like now?
hburg-I'll take your word for that one, Fred. you know more than me. I look forward to learning more.
state sponsored gambling: I hate it. I'd rather have illegal gambling and betting on horses. Why? because when the state encourages gambling in order to make money, they are creating vice and then profitting off of it. slavery. exploiting man's basest instincts in order to grow the government. that's why lotto is immoral.
taxes, taxes, taxes. Why anyone thinks that punitive taxes grow the economy, I'll never know. "money goes where it is well-treated." that's why North Carolina is gaining and PA is static.
This is why we need hockey as a diversion!
Wizard, of course a Philly fan has to chime in! Hockey a dying sport? A pox on you for saying such things!
yes, the Penguins are creating revenue and will create more, because they have the best young player in the game, a guy who will be bigger than Gretsky! if he stays healthy, of course. this is like bringing Jordan to Chicago.
Anyway, you philly fans have 4 pro sports. Pittsbgh fans have three and will soon be down to 2 if the Penguins leave. Now, I know, that Pittbgh teams are more likely to win championships than Philly teams, but that is no reason to run them out of the state!!
Tell Eddie I said so!
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